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General Community => Red Dragon Inn => Topic started by: Zarniwoop on 26 June 2016, 18:57:14

Title: EU Referendum
Post by: Zarniwoop on 26 June 2016, 18:57:14
There is a need here to take a step back and count to ten. There has been a democratic vote resulting in a decision and there will always be people who don't like the result.

Should there have been controls on how a win was defined? *YES* but there wasn't so it is what it is.

The problem was an election promise based on an assumed second coalition followed by a huge assumption that remain would win. This has resulted in a poorly prepared referendum with no contingency plan for a leave vote.

So we have a democratic result but one left open to question. The thing I most object to is being demonised by the losing side as unintelligent and fooled by the politician's.

I voted leave because the UK joined a common market not a federal Europe.  I still think a common market, if done right, is a good idea. However, devolving more and more power to a central body comprised mostly of politicians you have not been able to elect is wrong and hardly democratic.

Also of note is that the EU right up to the last day were confirming there would be no further reforms whatever the outcome.  One of the key arguments of remain was based on our ability to reform from within.
Since our vote to leave suddenly the EU member state political leaders are calling for EU Reform!!. So genuine need to change or just fear that their own populations may wish to join the leavers.

I was not persuaded by the lies, myths and negativity of *both* campaigns. Let us be honest with ourselves here neither campaign was run ethically or by providing facts about the positive reasons for their stance.

I'm not sure 2nd referendum would be much different, most likely it would be closer.  However I doubt the EU would accept a change of heart now anyway.

If we reapply for membership later by successive governments the UK would go in on a much worse deal then it has now assuming they even want to let us back in.  They have said out is out.

What we need now is a political party to help heal the wounds and go forward with a plan to include both sides of the argument.  The danger of parties trying to appeal to those who lost is parties on the fringes who have distasteful or extreme views will gather protest votes.

There is a need to be respectful of each others viewpoint no matter which side you fell and a need to work together and put in place the people best suited to represent *all* of us in the re-shaping of the UK in light of this result.

Title: Re: EU Referendum
Post by: Snakes in the Tiki Lounge on 27 June 2016, 00:31:50
A second referendum is an undemocratic nonsense. A salve for people who are salty about the result or feeling guilty about being part of the result. Both are stances I have no real time for.

It was always presented as a one shot winner takes all deal. The country had it's chance and collectively we reached a clear decision. Personally, I voted remain but we reached an answer through a direct democratic process and I think it's important we stick to that. Any politician or political party advocating that the results are ignored or the vote done over again till we "get it right" can take a long walk off a short pier. That's another strike against Tony Blair, another nail in the Lib Dem coffin and a probably a few idiots to throw into the pit after them from across the political spectrum.

It's too late for second thoughts and woulda-shoulda-coulda. The die is cast, the results are in. Time to get on with the future we chose. It doesn't matter at this point who voted what, we made this decision *as a country* and we're facing huge enough challenges without turning on each other or resorting to sulking and bickering about the way it went.

At least, those are my two cents.

Title: Re: EU Referendum
Post by: Zarniwoop on 27 June 2016, 18:23:38
Thanks Tiki in all the "social media" rhetoric over this process and the result it is refreshing to hear an inclusive viewpoint from someone.

There has definitely been far too much finger pointing and post after post of the same merry go round of so-called evidence of how terrible it will all be.

The truth is no-body actually knows until we cross the t's and dot the i's on the final documents. Until then, as you say, we need to pull together as a *whole* put aside our differences and get on with the job of building a better UK as well as forging new relationships around the world.

The future is unknown but should and could be bright.